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NRA in self-defense mode

January 17, 2013

Between President Barack Obama laying out his plan to fight gun violence and New York state enacting the state’s toughest gun restrictions, it’s been a tough week for the National Rifle Association....

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(38)

Pirate

Jan-17-13 5:32 AM

OK, I agree. All assault weapons should be banned. Weapons designed for the military to mow done bunches of people should be severely restricted.

Now the dirty little secret. They already are. Class Three firearms that fit the meaning of assault weapon are available legally only to Armed Services, Secret Service and other LEOs plus a few private sector folk willing and able to be licensed. Please note - producing a gun that is black or otherwise foreboding does not make it an assault weapon.

Eugene Stoner and his group won a military contract for the design the next standard battlefield rifle. It had to be durable, simple, lite weight, relatively accurate AND SERVE AS AN ULTRALIGHT MACHINE GUN. Had the last criteria not been met it would have fallen short. When accepted by the military it became the M16. There have been many variants since. The heavily accessorized carbines, especially the M4, have become the poster of guns from hell, wild on the general populace.

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Pirate

Jan-17-13 5:34 AM

The catch is, they don't exist in the wilds of the United States except in the possession of those listed prior or those who did not obtain them or intend to use them legally. There are already effective laws in place to deal with that.

What is seen is a watered down variant that is no more an assault weapon by function than many other never questioned guns. All firearms falling under the AR umbrella are semiautomatic. One pull of the trigger, one shot fired. They are manufactured in a way that they cannot be changed into an M16.

They are a sporting rifle different in appearance only from other semiautomatic sporting rifles. The .223 cartridge is excellent for small to some lighter medium game. Prairie dogs, coyotes, feral pigs, deer, etc. They can be plinkers with their inexpensive ammo or accurized, like other sporting arms, and used in organized target competition.

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Pirate

Jan-17-13 5:36 AM

What they are not is assault weapons. What they do have is readily available high capacity magazines. I may be eaten by my own for this but I believe if the only thing standing between leaving these design marvels alone and having the NRA, POTUS and Feinstein shut up was an agreement on magazine capacity, it would be done. Other "military features" are BS. Maybe we could paint them all pink.

That said,just for the record, magazines are not the issue. Had the shooter at the last school been armed with a simple .38, six shot revolver, the same damage could have been inflicted. Without a response to the threat a bag of speed loaders and a bit of practice would have been just as lethal.

Something needs to be done about safety in schools. A witch hunt on ARs won't make the problem go away. If setting this waste of time aside is as simple as magazine limits so be it. Then start working on the problem instead of an illusion.

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cowhand

Jan-17-13 9:26 AM

This President's photo op with children during the signing of usless executive orders, regarding gun control, was one of his worst ego-stroking, "look at me" events yet. Nothing will come of these orders, except the printing of more money to pay for them. The NRA has chosen to speak bluntly and so have various county level law enforcement officers, hoping this White House will be forced to eventuallly read the Constitution.

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rangeral

Jan-17-13 10:20 AM

The national media doesn't do it's homework. The DC school in question has 11 armed guards in addition to the secret service provided for the president's daughters. In hindsight, the NRA ad should have pointed this out and using the freedom of information act, listed the parents of the students at the school, including David Gregory who doesn't want guards at other schools.

What is the president going to do to stop the violence in his hometown of Chicago - kind of glossed over the severe gang problem there.

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Wharog

Jan-17-13 12:03 PM

It's always refreshing to see a liberal member of the media offer "solutions" to something that they don't even remotely understand as a knee-jerk reaction to fear. Unfortunately these Government "solutions" don't solve a*******thing. Per Petersen, have you even fired a gun in your life? Do you even understand the difference between a semi-automatic rifle and a select-fire or fully automatic one? If your home was invaded in the middle of the night by 3 or 4 armed assailants do you honestly believe the police would be there to protect you and your family? Do you honestly believe you could disable 3 armed assailants with 7 rounds of ammunition?

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OIIOHH

Jan-17-13 12:13 PM

The entire 2nd amendment infringement by the Owe'Bummer administration is just a smokescreen. They're trying to divert attention from the fact that Owe'Bummer has NOT A CLUE how to deal with the national debt, unemployment, or a federal budget.

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hartman75

Jan-17-13 2:17 PM

“If your home was invaded in the middle of the night by 3 or 4 armed assailants do you honestly believe the police would be there to protect you and your family? Do you honestly believe you could disable 3 armed assailants with 7 rounds of ammunition?”

What a laugh! Talk about knee-jerk reaction... what are you so afraid of that you need to keep a loaded gun at the ready 24/7. If you’re that scared of dying before your time then change your diet. You are much more likely to die from some self inflicted ailment resulting from a poor diet than “3 or 4 armed assailants”. Just like the latest NRA ad, this is fear mongering at it’s best. When you lack facts, or for that matter good sense, then I guess the best thing to do is fabricate outrageous scenarios to make a point. The NRA has become just another bunch of extremists more concerned with protecting their precious gun lobby than American lives.

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OIIOHH

Jan-17-13 3:16 PM

Gosh hartman, I guess the 2012 rash of Marshall home break-ins was just something that we can all forget about. No need for concern that the intruders might be armed. You're perfectly safe with these individuals on the prowl through your residence.

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rangeral

Jan-17-13 4:16 PM

hartman - please compile a list of items worth anything at your home and then publish your address. We'll do a test to see how much stuff I get out of there before 911 responds.

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hartman75

Jan-17-13 4:46 PM

Yea gee OIIOHH, I guess the law allowing homeowners to shoot trespassers didn't do much to thwart the recent break-ins. I have faith in our local law enforcement.

If you are that desperate or callous or hateful that you feel the need to steal from me rangeral, go for it. Nothing I own is worth dying or killing for.

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OIIOHH

Jan-17-13 6:19 PM

114 residential burglaries reported as of Oct. 30th, and you "have faith in our local law enforcement"? You're exactly the kind of Low Information Voter that Owe'Bummer is attempting to sucker.

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commonman

Jan-17-13 8:42 PM

The fact that it took the NRA so long to reply and get it's ducks in a row speaks volumes to me. They know their position on guns allowed the shooting to happen, they are now trying to minimize the impact on their organization. No, owning guns isn't a right; it should be an earned privilege.

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rangeral

Jan-17-13 9:29 PM

common - you again are incoherent. So what is your plan and how would it prevent Newtown, Aurora, Gabby Giffords, etc.

The NRA waited to hear what the president's plan was, and like many of us, found it woefully short on solutions. Not one thing about the gang killings in Chicago for starters - what is his fix for that? How would you fix it?

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merioncooper

Jan-18-13 8:20 AM

Al, read up on the freedom of information act. The president's kids attend a private school. You cannot use the freedom of information act to learn the names of other students there, nor could you use it to get information like teachers salaries. Teacher pay is easily available at public schools but even there the freedom of information act will not get you the names of the students. God, what a creepy thing to even suggest. Al, as a parent, you should know better, plus you should know the law.

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Wharog

Jan-18-13 8:27 AM

Hartman: Try doing a Google news search for "Home Invasion". Happens all over the US on seemingly a daily basis. Did you know that a few of the Marshall burglaries were home invasions that happened while the homeowners were at home? The Independent seems to leave that important little detail out.

Firearms are tools that are useful for hunting, sport, self defense, and defense from a tyrannical government whether foreign or domestic. It seems to me that all the folks in favor of removing firearms from law-abiding citizens through "gun control" measures are actually pro-gun. It's just that they are only pro-gun when it comes to people in power having them, ie police and a government that is already off its rocker. Personally, I have a LOT more faith in my ability to protect myself than I do the police or government. I'm sorry that so many folks have been brainwashed into thinking that the police, in current times, are there to protect them. Good luck with tha

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Wharog

Jan-18-13 8:30 AM

Commonman: Actually it is a right and it's enumerated in the Bill of Rights...the same document that gives you the right the free speech in order for you to say such unintelligent drivel.

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ProdigalSon

Jan-18-13 10:15 AM

"I have faith in our local law enforcement."~h75

I too have faith in the local police. They're great at extorting money from out of town travelers and using SWAT tactics on high school kids. If you don't live in the city of Marshall, police response is closer to half an hour than it is to eight minutes. Not much assurance when seconds count. Some civics understanding may ease some of your hysterics. Like this one:

"..a fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." Warren v. District of Columbia

This means the only people the police are duty-bound to protect are criminals in custody. YOU have no recourse if the police fail to respond or fail to protect you from injury.

And sorry, I can't get behind the idea that a woman raped and strangled is morally superior to a woman with a smoking gun and a dead rapist at her feet.

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ProdigalSon

Jan-18-13 10:43 AM

If you are that desperate or callous or hateful that you feel the need to steal from me rangeral, go for it. Nothing I own is worth dying or killing for."~h75

I think that paraquat they warned us about ate away your instincts for survival h75. If you are indeed operating with corrupted software, it'll be hard for those with other resources to rely on your conclusions. One method of testing for bad mental software is to check for the presence of logic.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but yer coming up short on that....

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ProdigalSon

Jan-18-13 10:56 AM

Let's look at this logic issue you have hartman75.

By your reasoning, we must get rid of guns because a deranged lunatic may go on a shooting spree at any moment.

Got it.

You seem to want to drive this point home with this:

Anyone who would own a gun out of concern of such a lunatic is paranoid.

Do you see the conflict there?

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hartman75

Jan-18-13 11:48 AM

Prod, you question my logic but you can't read? Please point out any statement where I claim all guns should be eliminated.

So far, those who favor no limitations on gun ownership have offered nothing but propaganda and excuses that border on the absurd. ie: “I can only shoot 30 rounds at gophers before I have to reload…without guns we can’t defend ourselves against the govt when they (fill in the blank)…the 2nd amendment protects my right to own a semi-automatic with a 30 round clip”. We need to keep guns out of the hands of the imbalanced. How? Prod, Wharog, et al are telling us EVERYONE should be armed since that’s the ONLY way to ensure our safety – we can’t trust the police or the govt, yet MY logic is questioned? The NRA and gun nuts have done a great job of making some believe the 2nd amendment is being threatened. Fortunately there are a majority of Americans who have much more sense. Let hope Congress decides to represent the majority of Americans for a change.

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hartman75

Jan-18-13 12:03 PM

So logically speaking Prod, I should be willing to kill or die to protect my furniture, computer, tools, car, my kick*** stereo and album collection? I really enjoy listening to my Grateful Dead albums but hey, I can always buy more. In truth, guns are nothing more than a tool for the weak.

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ProdigalSon

Jan-18-13 12:39 PM

I don't know that everyone should be armed h75. I know disarming everyone doesn't work. In Washington DC they have the strictest gun possession restrictions in the world. They also have a murder rate of 80.6 per 100,000. A few hundred yards away in Arlington, Va, the murder rate is 1.6 per 100,000. The open carry of a handgun has never been restricted there.

What do you conclude from this h75?

DC has more cops than anywhere else in the world between the DC Metro Police, US Marshals, the US Dept of Justice supplies Sheriff duties there with several hundred officers, Metro Transit Police, US Capitol Police, Secret Service, Park Police, Protective Services Police Department. None are obligated to save your _ss. They're not.

Virginians have the option of firearms for self defense.

Kind of makes a number of points, doesn't it?

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ProdigalSon

Jan-18-13 1:27 PM

"So logically speaking Prod, I should be willing to kill or die to protect my furniture, computer, tools, car, my kick*** stereo and album collection?" ~h75

That's a purely personal determination h75. Logic tells me I can replace goods cheaper than fund a criminal defense. You wouldn't want me on your jury if you were tried for killing someone for simple burglary. You ignore the realities of violent crime here...74 murders, 1664 rapes, 3386 robberies, 6701 assaults, all in Minnesota last year. Your chances of being a victim of a violent crime is 1 in 39. The Marshall crime index is 25 out of 100, meaning 75% of the state is a safer place to live.

The police have no obligation to intercede, often are too far away if they wanted to. That's a reality. What's the next logical responsible action a citizen takes to protect their family. Family, not your bong collection.

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hartman75

Jan-18-13 4:24 PM

You can spin statistics to prove ANY point you want Prod. There has NEVER been a study that statistically proves the presence of a gun or gun ownership is related in any way to the rate of violent or non-violent crime. What IS statistically true (and logical) is that the presence of a gun increases the risk of death attributed to guns. Knowing that violent crime exists doesn’t warrant the need to keep a loaded gun around. The fact is, I stand a greater risk of death or injury when in the presence of a loaded weapon, whether the gun’s in my possession or not.

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