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What is a weapon? It’s the intention of the user

January 25, 2013

To the editor: First, I’d like to give my sympathy to the families in Connecticut, but also to individuals who have lost a loved one in an unexpected tragedy....

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AlsoConcerned

Jan-25-13 9:05 AM

I suppose if the government starts talking about lowering the speed limits, you'll start warning everyone that the government is planning on taking vehicles away. They are just trying to figure out how big of a toy (magazine/clip) people really need in the gun. If you need 30 rounds to bring down a deer or stop a person from coming into your house, then you don't need a weapon anyway because you can't hit what you're aiming at. If you aim is that bad, use a shotgun. At least then if you miss your target, the bullet won't go through the wall and kill someone next door.

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SomeSensePlease

Jan-25-13 9:51 AM

Your ignorance is amazing, Valerie. Did you really write that gun control was the reason for the Holocaust?? That if the Jews had had guns Hitler would not have been able to ship them off to Dachau and the other death camps?? Please, do us all a favor: do not reproduce.

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rona45

Jan-25-13 10:41 AM

Some Sense Please, You must shudder everytime you look in the mirror. Your ability to judge people is astounding. It goes along with your historic lack of knowledge and the ability to judge others.

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SomeSensePlease

Jan-25-13 12:09 PM

Rona: 3 questions for you: 1. Who am I judging? 2. In what area do I lack knowledge? As a history major, I'm pretty sure I know a lot more about genocide than either you or Valerie. 3. Again, who am I judging?

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Pirate

Jan-25-13 12:17 PM

SSP - apparently a history major requires no other knowledge. Denigrating Valerie as ignorant seems a bit judgmental. Just out of curiosity, does your employment have anything to do with your degree?

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SomeSensePlease

Jan-25-13 12:24 PM

What knowledge am I lacking, Pirate? I'm not judgmental, just blunt. Valerie knows nothing about the holocaust or other genocides. I merely pointed that out.

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hartman75

Jan-25-13 12:55 PM

"Unless we the people don't wake up and see what is taking place, we will bring on our own demise as a free country and a free people and become a police state."

Vickie and the NRA WANT a police state. How else would you describe placing armed guards at every public gathering place; movie theaters, gymnasiums, schools, churches, malls. The true cost of freedom comes from not placing ANY restrictions on clip sizes or types of weapons and ammo available to the general public? Nothing Vickie suggests would prevent more gun violence. Her argument is based on emotion - NO ONE is threatening to make owning a gun illegal! NO ONE is denying any individual the right to defend their property! Vickie is repeating the same propaganda we hear from the NRA. The gun lobby has had their way and now our society is paying the price. It's time to put in place sensible restrictions which is what "we the people" want!

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ProdigalSon

Jan-25-13 1:10 PM

"That if the Jews had had guns Hitler would not have been able to ship them off to Dachau and the other death camps??"~lackofsense

Ms Valerie didn't say this, but I will.

13 million Jews, armed, wouldn't have been marched off to gas chambers without a fight, had they not been disarmed. That doesn't read ignorant. It reads like an accurate assessment of a large group of people with the will to live. group that had their ability to defend themselves removed. In the name of safety.

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ProdigalSon

Jan-25-13 1:11 PM

"Vickie and the NRA WANT a police state."~ h75

Please provide a cite to support this ludicrous accusation.

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ProdigalSon

Jan-25-13 1:15 PM

I'll thank Ms. Downing for not only a well thought out and researched letter, I'll offer thanks and respect for having the guts to submit it.

For awhile there, I was wondering if there was something in the water around here....

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ProdigalSon

Jan-25-13 1:16 PM

"Nothing Vickie suggests would prevent more gun violence."~h75

Correct. She points out what historically WON'T work, and has cost millions their lives.

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ProdigalSon

Jan-25-13 1:24 PM

"The gun lobby has had their way and now our society is paying the price."~h75

Provide a cite that ANY advocate or supporter of the second amendment, sporting or recreational interests supports rampage killings.

You make very wild unsubstantiated claims about law abiding citizens.

Without credible citations, facts, figures, you bring nothing, absolutely nothing, other than histrionics. That may work on your Mom, but it won't cut it here.

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KaptainKrunch

Jan-25-13 1:34 PM

Some sense please, Dachau was not a death camp like Auschwitz-Birkenau. It was the first concentration camp in Germany opened in 1933 the vast majority of it's prisoners were political including over 1,600 clergy members opposed to the Nazi regime. For someone so quick to call others ignorant maybe you should get your facts correct first. I thought you liberals were supposed to be so open minded and tolerant. Right up until someone disagrees with you then you tear em to shreds, insult them, insult their families, tell them they shouldn't have children, etc. etc.. Like a bunch of spoiled little brats. Valerie, good letter it takes courage to try and talk sense to the senseless especially when you know you're going to be attacked.

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hartman75

Jan-25-13 1:49 PM

"I'll thank Ms. Downing for not only a well thought out and researched letter..."

This pronouncement comes from the same individual who claims guns are necessary to augment law enforcement (because the police are NOT duty bound to protect the general public) AND to reduce the threat that our military will one day turn against the U.S. and strip Americans of their rights and property. Obviously, we have nothing to fear from large, well funded special interest groups like the gun lobby.

And of course we have NOTHING to fear from those who insist they NEED the ability to possess unlimited amounts of guns and ammunition. The Centers for Disease Control discovered, "households with guns were three times more likely to have homicides and five times more likely to have suicides than homes without guns". Facts prove those who own guns are more likely to die from gun violence, buy hey, don't let facts get in the way of reason.

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hartman75

Jan-25-13 2:20 PM

"I thought you liberals were supposed to be so open minded and tolerant. Right up until someone disagrees with you then you tear em to shreds, insult them, insult their families, tell them they shouldn't have children, etc. etc.." -Kaptain

“I find the senseless child-like trust among some commentators regarding governments ability to protect them and provide for their every need so over the top as to border on mental retardation.” -Kaptain

WOW Kaptain, I'll bet rangeral and OIIOHH will be surprised to learn they are liberals. Sounds like you have some liberal leanings too Kaptain, that is if what you stated were actually true. Lets try to stick with the subject at hand.

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ProdigalSon

Jan-25-13 3:08 PM

I haven't advocated anything h75. I've brought to the commentary some facts that you don't do well with accepting.

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rangeral

Jan-25-13 3:13 PM

hartman, grow up.

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ProdigalSon

Jan-25-13 3:16 PM

Well, h75, OTOH, The Centers for Disease Control, same agency you quote, agency of the federal government, has conducted studies of many of the gun-control laws in place, such as waiting periods, registration, and bans on certain types of firearms. The results showed that the idea that gun control laws have reduced violent crime is......... simply a myth.

h75's assertions can be countered by control studies, see “More Guns; Less Crime” by former University of Chicago and current Harvard professor John Lott.

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ProdigalSon

Jan-25-13 3:34 PM

'Lets try to stick with the subject at hand."~h75

Agreed. The right to self defense. A natural right that predates the constitution. Is it moral to remove an effective means of defense from a black family in a rural neighborhood of high KKK activity?

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hartman75

Jan-25-13 4:30 PM

Prod, I too have brought to the commentary some facts that you don't do well with accepting. You are advocating the continuation of existing gun laws. I am advocating for adding some restrictions - nothing more. Based on your last question, you obviously have not been reading my comments. Go back and review my comments; the only claim I have made is that gun ownership has no impact on levels of crime. In other words, there are no studies that provide a direct link between the rise and fall of crime rates and gun ownership.

Its also true that: The idea that gun ownership laws have reduced violent crime is......... simply a myth.

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KaptainKrunch

Jan-25-13 4:48 PM

Oh Hartman you can do better than this. Or maybe not. You are to easy, it is fun though.Do you live on this blog? Me, I'm gonna go out shooting, got a new scope for my mini-14 gotta sight it in for coyote hunting. Might take along my Tokarev also. That ought to get you going. Geez, I think some of your spittle just came through my computer calm down.

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ProdigalSon

Jan-25-13 4:51 PM

hartman75, if you'd like to see an example of folks obligated to rely on the gubmit to "defend them", go take a tour of Pine Ridge. Here's a question you can pose to the Natives when ya git there: "How often do the police stop crimes here"? If you find a large group out there, ask 'em if they're grateful for the security police and government provide. Just a suggestion, but maybe you better wink when you ask 'em.

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rangeral

Jan-25-13 4:52 PM

For some perspective, the drunken driver convicted today gets 48 months in prison for killing a kid while drunk - and he will be out before that period is up. And our laws in regard to drunk driving are without teeth. Where is the outcry?

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rona45

Jan-25-13 5:40 PM

So because some sense please calls himself a history major that is supposed to mean something? I guess you must have had easy teachers who didn't ask you tough questions about the real world. Seems some remedial education is in order.

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ProdigalSon

Jan-25-13 5:46 PM

"the only claim I have made is that gun ownership has no impact on levels of crime. In other words, there are no studies that provide a direct link between the rise and fall of crime rates and gun ownership."~h75

B.S. I've provided a number of them.

Concealed carry laws and guns in the home may or not reduce gun-related deaths. It certainly changes WHO dies. That's a fact.

A U of Chicago study revealed that states which passed concealed carry laws reduced their murder rate by 8.5%, rapes by 5%, aggravated assaults by 7% and robbery by 3%.

How do you substantiate "no studies" from "no studies that support my biases"?

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