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Has equality been won?

May 21, 2013

To the editor: In light of Governor Dayton signing the bill legalizing gay marriage, it’s clear that equality has been won....

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(95)

rangeral

May-21-13 12:10 PM

100% on track!

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blasphemer

May-21-13 1:50 PM

Most of the "progressive" people I know would actually agree with what this man is saying, however it is the conservatives who will keep this from ever happening.

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hartman75

May-21-13 3:48 PM

Here we go again. Over the centuries, ignorance and fear have resulted in a multitude of injustices levied against others based on race, creed and gender. As we have developed in a collective sense, our intellect has also advanced yet tyrants continue to use straw man arguments to rationalize bigotry, hatred and injustice. There will always be those like Alex & Merritt, who prophesier societal collapse whenever civil liberties are expanded. If their argument had any shred of validity, the concept of marriage ought to be abolished. Given time, however, wisdom and reason prevail over baseless, narrow-minded beliefs. Our laws are based on many tenants including the right of equal privileges and equal restrictions. Our civil liberties allow us to come and go as we please – but loitering & jaywalking is illegal. Aside from gender, gay marriage is exactly the same as heterosexual marriage. Polygamy is not. Sadly, the ONLY basis for Alex & Merritt’s argument is ignorance & fe

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hartman75

May-21-13 3:52 PM

...basis for Alex & Merritt’s argument is ignorance & fear.

(note to Independent: I thought you allowed for 1,000 characters, not 980)

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56two58

May-21-13 4:12 PM

"aside from gender" is a huge exemption i terms of defining marriage. As ALex points out, that opens the door for any consenting adult to claim the same equal treatment under the law. There is no defending it. Why deny polygamy. Under what grounds?

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Merritt

May-21-13 4:26 PM

"Aside from gender, gay marriage is exactly the same as heterosexual marriage." - with the exception that heterosexuals can reproduce in nature and homosexuals cannot. Which means marriage has nothing to do with reproduction; which invalidates the argument that marriage between relatives is outlawed because of reproduction concerns. Things cannot be the exact same when they are different Hartman. I honestly do not care two people of the same gender want to have a relationship, but when you change the definition of marriage, marriage is no longer what it used to be. The only one being ignorant here is you. This is not an emotional topic for me. I'm thinking through this logically and applying the new definition to society. As blasphemer said, "most progressive people I know would actually agree with what this man is saying." I must be leading the progressive charge here. Jump on-board. I've been called "baseless and narrow-minded and a progressive thinker withi

5 Agrees | 22 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

Merritt

May-21-13 4:30 PM

within 2 posts. So Hartman, where do you stand on two brothers getting married? Progressive or baseless and narrow-minded?

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hartman75

May-21-13 6:00 PM

Merritt, apparently you and Alex are incapable of validating the very argument you present. Instead you ask others to do it for you. I have no need to substantiate the stupidity of your argument - that's already been accomplished with your posts.

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Merritt

May-21-13 6:10 PM

I take it you are narrow-minded and against the idea of allowing relatives to marry. Please lay out your argument for two brothers not being allowed to marry. Please include the impact that it has on your life, and also defend my accusation that you are a bigot. Feel free to use more than 980 characters.

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rangeral

May-21-13 6:27 PM

hartman - now that your arguments in favor of gay marriage have been turned around to support "anything goes", your principles fly out the window and you deny the same respect to other couplings. That makes you a bigot.

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hartman75

May-22-13 10:05 AM

rangeral, you certainly have a distorted view of reality.

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westline

May-22-13 10:49 AM

Aside from a few strands of DNA, people are exactly the same as monkeys. Now my neighbor can marry his monkey and file for taxes under married, filing jointly. Come on you flip-flopping liberals, once you allow unions that are not marriages to be called marriages, you open the door to anything.

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WW07

May-22-13 12:02 PM

I almost feel sorry for hartperson-having to count his characters and all. And having to be careful not to be too explicit, anticipating the day when he will, in fact, be a proponent for polygamy and will not want any cached words popping back to haunt him.

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bystander

May-22-13 12:29 PM

When that monkey is a consenting adult, can understand and clearly accept the terms of the marriage contract, then maybe they could get married. I'm personally not against plural marriages, as long as everyone involved is consenting adults. Get rid of special tax breaks or exclusions based on marriage. Every working adult has the same tax deductions and implications. That solves pretty much most of the Al's issues. Seems to me that there were a lot of plural marriages in the Bible. Where is the outrage over that? Shouldn't there be an investigation into who allowed that and if it was legal? Perhaps we should revisit which books of the Bible were allowed in. Such filth! Plural marriages? In the Bible?! Say it ain't so!

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Merritt

May-22-13 1:41 PM

If you are going to make the monkey prove that he/she understands and accepts the terms of a marriage contract, I think you should sure people do as well. In some cases, I think the monkey might understand it better.

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Merritt

May-22-13 1:48 PM

My next question on same-sex marriage: If there is no difference between a mother and a father and a same-sex couple should be able to adopt children, is there not a huge gender discrimination issue going on in custody battles?

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hartman75

May-22-13 3:26 PM

Don't feel too sorry WW07, the WORD software does the counting for me. BTW, please provide the statement where I claim to be a proponent of polygamy.

I can understand, Merritt, why you believe a monkey could better understand a marriage contract since, according to westlines argument, monkeys are the same as humans.

Aside from a few chromosomes men are the same as women, westline, so using your line of reasoning they are the same. Go figure. You may want to flip-flop on your argument since aside from a few strands of DNA, there is a great difference between human and monkey. But then in your case, that may not be true.

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56two58

May-22-13 4:10 PM

I am looking forward to having only 1 bathroom in all public facilities and such now since doing things on the basis of gender differences and sexual preference is considered discrimination and bigotry. This equality should save everyone - a significant reduction construction costs due to no more gender seperate restrooms.

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commonman

May-22-13 7:21 PM

I think life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is covered with the gay marriage bill. The churches can say what they want, this is not a church issue.

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AModerate

May-22-13 7:25 PM

Righties… you lost the Gay Marriage fight because equality and human rights won out. Live with it. It’s the Far Right’s preoccupation against Gay Marriage that got this state a bunch of new taxes and put the unions back into control. Before you alienate an entire generation of young, social moderate /fiscal conservative GOP voters (if you haven’t already) move on to the relevant issues that should be at the party core. Otherwise, the GOP is just going to be a bunch of grumpy old white guys in nursing homes.

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56two58

May-23-13 8:59 AM

I'm okay with losing. I just want equality for all and hope that the left doesn't draw the line at their own special interest. I wan 1 bathroom for all - equality. Why not? Why have separate bathrooms?

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Merritt

May-23-13 10:04 AM

Hartman, Moderate, Commonman answer the question. Why should two consenting brothers not be allowed to get married in the name of equality, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Moderate, this is the issue at hand. If you want to talk economy, it's George Bush's fault. If you want to talk deficit, same. If you want to talk these social issues, we're bigots, racists, homophobes. What would you like to talk about? Taxes? Spending? War?

Bengahzi? IRS? AP? - doesn't matter, there is an excuse for everything with these people.

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hartman75

May-23-13 11:11 AM

Here's my answer Merritt (again); Our laws are based on many tenants including the right of equal privileges and equal restrictions.

Answer this Merritt: If you are convinced that it's acceptable for a man to marry a women, then, according to your argument, it should also be acceptable for a brother to marry their sister, or father to marry his daughter or mother to marry her son. Do you agree and if so why not? Also please explain why you think gay marriage has any relationship to incest.

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hartman75

May-23-13 11:22 AM

"...there is an excuse for everything with these people."

Obviously, you must be referring to conservatives, Merritt. I have read every excuse imaginable from you and other conservatives on why you CAN'T support legislation instead of taking the view of a moderate and finding a compromise that's in the best interest of MOST Americans. What was the excuse Republicans had for blocking anti-bullying legislation?

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Merritt

May-23-13 1:29 PM

The answer is quite simple Hartman. The key difference is reproduction. In nature, it is only a man and a woman that can reproduce. It is only in this unique relationship that life can be created in nature. The only reason I am against incest is because of the potenial birth defects it causes. For some reason, nature has decided relatives should not reproduce with each other. To make an argument for same-sex marriage, you have to disregard reproduction as a part of marriage. Two same-sex individuals cannot reproduce. That makes it different than heterosexual marriage. So if you disregard the reproduction aspect of marriage for one set of individuals in the name of equality, to be fair, you have to do the exact same for all people. Under your definition of marriage, I have to support incest, polygamy, etc. in the name of equality. You are not applying "restrictions" equally. There is no logical reason to deny brothers to marry under this definition.

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