Is the impact on society about hunting? Would that be the serious individuals who test themselves with extreme challenges or the more social end of the spectrum that simply enjoys the camaraderie of others duck, pheasant, deer or coyote hunting?
Rather than list another two pages of examples I'll get to the the point. Your myopic view of the "impact on society" is the almost incalculable percentage of rounds that are fired in horrific situations. These need to be addressed. But don't tinkle on my shoes and tell me it's raining. These situations have been politicized and exploited by those who don't like guns. You will not deter bad people from having and using guns with new laws applied to good people. Laws exist that make possessing a gun by the ineligible very unattractive. Find an Elliot Ness to enforce them. If the time, energy and dollars spent on proposed solutions that primarily target the law abiding are shifted to focus on bad guys the impact on society will b
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hartman - not even sure where to start on that bunch of disparate statements. But just because you're you I gotta try.
Help me understand this impact on society guns have that you speak of. Is this the economic impact of many thousands employed in completely legitimate and legal enterprise? On the smaller side gun shops, gun ranges, gunsmiths, shooting preserves, dog breeders, dog trainers, gun safety training, hunting guides, etc., etc.. On the larger side Pheasants Forever, Ducks Unlimited, state DNRs, federal DNR, ATK and others ammunition business, the dozens of assembly line gun manufacturers, etc., etc.. Or are you talking about the many thousands of target shooters from the highest levels of competition to gravel pit plinkers. This includes a range of people running from those who measure results with a micrometer to families enjoying time together putting holes in cans. DHS sending a billion rounds down range at targets?
I stick by the plan to have rangeral and prodigalson volunteer their time to keep the school safe, since they believe more guns is the answer and not the problem. Feel free to man up, you two.
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prod - when someone disagrees with him/her, hartman likes to make stuff up, and then someone like bystander comes screaming in that hartman is being picked on.
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So, "Happy Easter" isn't positive enough for you?
I have yet to see you come to my defense on any comment, no matter how inane, negative, bullying, etc.
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"You and Prod claim we must keep guns out of the hands of those who shouldn't have them but then oppose the ONLY means by which that could be accomplished. Why?"~h75
Please quote a post I submitted so I can address your contention.
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I couldn't agree more with your last post, bystander, which is generally why it seems pointless to engage rangeral in most debates.
Pirate, the statistics speak for themselves. Of course they must be taken in context but that does NOT change the impact guns have on our society. ALL individuals should be taught to respect guns, not fear them. You don't seem to understand the difference. Freedom does not exist in a country when individuals feel it's necessary to carry a gun for protection. If you intend to abide by the law, then the law is not a burden. You and Prod claim we must keep guns out of the hands of those who shouldn't have them but then oppose the ONLY means by which that could be accomplished. Why?
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No Al, I was pointing out (AGAIN) YOUR negative comments. It's never-ending. Whenever someone calls you out on your rhetoric, you ask some inane question, wait for a non-response to your inane question, and/or get all uppity when you don't get the reaction you intended. Your comments are full of hyperbole and unsubstantiated opinion. When someone counters your opinion with one of their own, you come back with personal attacks--intelligence, name-calling (i.e., bully comment), and comments about that person's presumed business or scholastic accumen. It's nauseating. Stick to the facts. If you disagree with someone, that's fine, but don't attack their character. That says more about your character than it does theirs.
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bystander - all you seem to contribute are negative comments, so follow your own advice. The rest of us are doing fine.
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Al, there was no need to go after Hartman by calling him a bully in school. Let's keep it civil and keep the name-calling to a minimum. Substantiate your comments with facts and citations. Please don't litter them with insults, innuendos, or playground attacks. That goes for all of you. Many of you seem to resort to playground name-calling and ego-bashing. That's the problem with this country--no one can discuss anything civilly anymore. Makes my head hurt.
Still missing your plan to keep school safe, hartman. My guess is that you were quite the bully in school.
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hartman - you can buy a cannon legally in any state of the union, without any permit. Why aren't you covering this in your ban on weapons?
hartman - your use of statistics is mind numbing, as evidenced by the agrees to your posts. Fear mongering and exaggeration? You are the master. You state 16,000 kids were injured by guns in a year. Regrettable but hardly the child shredder you attempt to convey. Six million are injured unintentionally each year. Nearly 1million visit ERs for sports injuries. About 200,000 each for basketball and football. ad infinitum.
Your statistics are also skewed by context. The safety of a child around guns is greatly determined by what they know about them. A child in my house who is taught gun safety is far less likely to be injured or injure others than one who is taught gun fear or even worse educated only by video games and Hollywood.
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"Personally I've discovered most well informed individuals use truth and fact to form the basis of their beliefs." ~h75
What facts do you base your belief that Utopia only exists under what you call Socialism which in reality is just raw statism?
YOUR truth and fact is you want a government daddy to take care of you. And we all better do what daddy says or you'll tell...
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"..your huffing and puffing along with the imaginary conspiracy fables are getting tiresome.'~h75
In January 2013, California Senator Feinstein and Representative McCarthy from New York PROPOSED a bill which would "ban the sale, transfer, manufacturing of importation of 157 specific firearms including semiautomatic rifles or pistols that can be used with a detachable or fixed ammunition magazines that hold more than 10 rounds and have specific military-style features, including pistol grips, grenade launchers or rocket launchers." Minnesota House Bill 241 would make it a crime for manufacturing, transferring, or possessing certain "assault weapons", which by description, matches about anything that goes "bang".
No conspiracy theory about it.
Certain guns, or ALL guns banned h75?
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"Belief is irrelevant to truth and fact."
I'm sure that is true for you Prod. Personally I've discovered most well informed individuals use truth and fact to form the basis of their beliefs. Your huffing and puffing along with the imaginary conspiracy fables are getting tiresome.
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"How about a Marine killing 2 at Quantico? How about a guy opening fire at Ft Hood?"~rockfish
You prefer the Marine blew the whole barracks up, the Army shrink at Ft Hood go the suicide bomber route? You don't seem able to get it:
Where there is a will, there's a way.
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'The belief that your children will be better protected by having a rifle or hand gun in the home is a fallacy."~h75
Belief is irrelevant to truth and fact. A truth and fact you need to come to terms with is that we, as Americans, are assured our God given right to self defense in our Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Pay close attention to the "shall not be infringed" part. The best your team has couldn't find away over, around or under that part. Time to give it a rest. You'll find acceptance is the key to your serenity. Accept that which you cannot change. Read another chapter of the Motorcycle Diaries. Inhale deeply. And tell me:
Do you want CERTAIN guns banned, or ALL guns banned?
The eighth time I've put this to you h75
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"How can something be tabled if was never proposed in the first place.." ~h75
Gun ban bills were proposed, sponsored, assigned to committees and those committees held public hearings in both state and federal legislative bodies. I'd say that substantiates my contention they were proposed.
Our civil process is kind of murky to you , huh? maybe if you had a better understanding of how things happen, you could take a meaningful part in it, instead of opting for destroying that which you don't understand.
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"Both state and federal legislators have tabled attempts to disarm America."
How can something be tabled if was never proposed in the first place? Poor Prod, you are so far removed from reality that you can't differentiate clip size restrictions from disarmament. Fear mongering at it's best. All your claims are exaggerations. THIS claim is not however; Nearly three times more kids (15,576) were injured by firearms in 2010 than the number of U.S. soldiers (5,247) wounded in action that year in the war in Afghanistan (source: CDF, CDC, Department of Defense). The belief that your children will be better protected by having a rifle or hand gun in the home is a fallacy.
How about a Marine killing 2 at Quantico? How about a guy opening fire at Ft Hood?
The only way to eliminate bee stings is for everyone to have 6 or 7 bee hives so the bees will stay away because there are bees. Also. Too. Big Gulp.
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Prod must be a lawyer, as he has convinced so many that we should support even more open gun laws in order to prevent more gun crimes. He can hide behind whatever stats he finds to support his argument. The truth is, he will be defending whoever killed innocent people with some lame insanity argument and laughing his way to the bank.
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I think prod and rangeral should be posted at the gates, since they believe a more heavily armed community is a safer community. They will be volunteers of course, since the right to bear arms is the choice they stand for.......
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All nonsense h75. Ever hear of a spree-shooter forgetting his ammo?
The brain short circuit that drives them to go on a rampage may not interfere in their ability to plot and carry out carnage. Much evidence exists that they can and do. And don't kid yourself that they don't CHOOSE low risk / victim rich environments. Ever hear of a rampage shooting at Poor Borch's? Cabelas? No? How about at a Ducks Unlimited Banquet?
As far as the evil guns and their capacities, looks like you'll get to practice lots of acceptance to their existence. Both state and federal legislators have tabled attempts to disarm America.
"Now, a shooter knows they are the only one on site with a gun, and have free reign. Remove that notion from the shooter, and rampage killings will drop." - That's a rational response Prod. So what makes you think an individual who decides to go on a killing spree is thinking rationally? Capital punishment has NOT deterred horrific crimes from taking place which was the intent. Areas where large groups of people congregate are targets NOT because there is likely to be no resistance - it's due to the fact they offer the greatest opportunity to those planning mass murder. We FACILITATE mass murder by allowing large capacity gun clips and NOT requiring EVERY gun buyer submit to a background check.
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