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Do you think schoolchildren should say the Pledge of Allegiance every morning?

  1. Yes
  2. No
 
 
 
 
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Comments

(47)

Scout101

Sep-13-13 5:02 PM

SEL & H75, I read those articles too. Bottom line is Muslims were allowed to march in Washington on the anniversary of 9/11 and the counter march was denied. You seem to have left out a few points. The Muslim march was about persecution of Muslims in the US since 9/11. FBI data concludes that Jews and other groups have been persecuted 5-6 times more frequently than Muslims since 9/11. If our government is not trying to change our beliefs then why are they forming a department to do just that ? It is similar to a European/British program to influence everything from the type of cars we buy to public opinion on world affairs. I suggest you do a little research on Muslims in this country in the last 25 years. Take off the blinders H75 !

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hartman75

Sep-13-13 10:49 AM

sumyouguy, not only was Scouts underlying point false, his entire premise was false. No matter how much you’re “willing (to) see it” the fact remains our government is not favoring Muslims over bikers. There must be some sort of faulty wiring in the brains of certain individuals that even when given the facts they continue to believe a lie. Joe Keohane of the Boston Globe wrote an article entitled “How Facts Backfire” that reveals, “Facts don’t necessarily have the power to change our minds.” He discovered, “rather than facts driving beliefs, our beliefs can dictate the facts we chose to accept.” Even more disturbing is that, “the very people who most need to correct them will be least likely to do so.” Researchers discovered individuals with low self esteem were less likely to accept facts that refuted their beliefs. The truly scary part is that many of these individuals also vote. Like SEL claimed in another post, it’s how Michele Bachmanns of the world get elected.

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sumyounguy

Sep-12-13 10:44 PM

Scout's underlying point is valid. There's plenty of evidence, but you have to be willing see it. Chris Matthews won't tell you about it.

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hartman75

Sep-12-13 9:50 AM

See Scout, its always better to know the facts before making a claim instead of relying on right-wing extremist propaganda. Thanks to SEL, now you know the truth.

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SELyonCo

Sep-11-13 2:03 PM

The Muslim group applied for a permit to march on the Washington Mall to protest profiling by intelligence and law enforcement agencies. The bikers applied for a permit to have up to 2 million bikers ride around downtown DC to remember the 9/11 victims. The national park service denied the bikers’ permit application because of all the traffic hassles it would cause. It had nothing to do with religion. Claiming the government is favoring Muslims is ridiculous, unsubstantiated Tea Party propaganda to frighten the poorly informed into voting for “conservative” candidates.

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Scout101

Sep-11-13 10:27 AM

Why isn't anyone complaining about government involvement in religion regarding this ??? Seems like they are favoring the Muslims.

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Scout101

Sep-11-13 10:24 AM

Anyone who doesn't believe the government is trying to changes our beliefs needs to look at todays Washington news. On 9/11 a Muslim march is permitted in Washington but a non-Muslim biker counter march is denied a permit.

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sumyounguy

Sep-11-13 7:00 AM

Yes, really, and I also thank you. I didn't mean to get so wordy, but there's just so much to fix out there.

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rangeral

Sep-10-13 11:40 PM

Thank you for the compliment, really.

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Really

Sep-10-13 10:24 PM

Sum, Into yourself much? WOW. Just what the forum needed and guy even smarter than AL.

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sumyounguy

Sep-10-13 8:00 PM

Professors regularly go on a psychotic rant against anything traditional, and get handsomely paid for it. Dispicable.

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sumyounguy

Sep-10-13 7:57 PM

H75, I defy you to find the words "separation of church and state" in the first amendment, as you assert. I will make it easy for, go here: archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html. The Constitution only limited Congress. The court broadened (changed) the meaning of the first amendment. Now it is time for you to actually READ the Constitution and accept the literal meaning rather than continue to hold onto the ideas of indoctrination you have received from leftists your entire life. It will take some genuine effort and clear thought. If you try, I believe you can succeed.

Indoctrination is in all of the subjects you listed, even math and science. My kids have told me about their teachers in all of those subjects attempting to influence with anything from innuendo to direct statements attacking republicans and/or conservatives (they aren't the same). For higher education proof, even a simple you tube search will provide plenty of material.

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farmkid

Sep-10-13 1:51 PM

Classic al folks. When he hasn't got an arguement to make, he resorts to insults. When insults aren't effective, he insults parents.

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Scout101

Sep-10-13 12:48 PM

H75 you are a poster child for what is wrong with our country today. You demand all the rights and freedoms afforded by our constitution but argue against a pledge to a symbol of those rights. You demand everything and give nothing in return. And you would deny an opportunity to educate our children about honor to our flag and country. If children don't understand why they recite the pledge then their parents and schools need to teach them why, H75 you missed this in your education. The pledge and what it stands for gives you the right to disagree on this forum but not the right to eliminate it from our society.

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rangeral

Sep-10-13 12:18 PM

hartman - explain where I insulted your parents?

I would disagree with your point - you may have been taught well but that is not how it comes off on these pages.

Tell us again how you are saving the environment and what you are personally doing.

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hartman75

Sep-10-13 11:11 AM

“The Founders didn't remove religion from government, a court did.”

It seems to be you who does not understand our founding principles sumyounguy. The Constitution itself establishes a separation of church and state in the first amendment. You could at least take the time to READ the constitution if that’s the basis for your argument. Tell us the aspects of public education you believe is riddled with indoctrination, math, science, reading, geography, english, social science, phys ed? Since the same methods are used in both, if you believe public education is riddled with indoctrination then religious teachings are also riddled with indoctrination. Parents are responsible for passing values on to their children, not schools.

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hartman75

Sep-10-13 10:46 AM

rangeral, my parents were the best parents in the world. They taught me both in words and action that every person deserves respect no matter what their color, religious beliefs or personal background. My parents provided each of their children with the love and support I wish every child could experience. If you believe insulting me advances your argument, it doesn’t, but don’t ever insult my parents.

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sumyounguy

Sep-09-13 8:22 PM

The Founders didn't remove religion from government, a court did. You won't find separation of church and state in the Constitution. H-man if you don't think that all levels of public education are riddled with indoctrination, then you're hopelessly lost or biased beyond repair.

No wonder this Country is in such bad shape, when so many people don't understand its founding principles.

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rangeral

Sep-09-13 5:29 PM

Good parents and good teachers explain to their children why we say the Pledge and stand for the flag.

Too bad hartman missed out.

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farmkid

Sep-09-13 1:40 PM

Kids don't understand why they stand as the color guard passes by in a parade either, yet they do it, or parents have them do it. Would you do away with that show of respect because they don't understand?

The Pledge of Allegiance is a teaching moment. It teaches about respect for our country, and the freedom we enjoy. It should not go away.

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hartman75

Sep-09-13 12:22 PM

Obviously, there are some who are confused about the separation of Church and State. ALL entities that receive public funding AND serve the public are a function of the State, including public schools. Our forefathers fled a Church controlled State (England) and formed a democratic republic whose constitution expressly forbids religious persecution and protects against those who would force their religious values on the general public. Forcing students to recite a pledge they don’t actually understand and can’t submit to is more analogous to indoctrination than patriotism. Hypocrisy is demanding that the general populace pledge allegiance to a democratic republic created, in large part, to allow freedom of dissent. By the way Scout, not that I matters but I have a “real” job where work is required.

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rangeral

Sep-09-13 8:38 AM

Right now I just wonder where Obama will be on 9/11 this year and what has been neglected by his administration this year.

After a year why is there no justice in Benghazi?

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SELyonCo

Sep-09-13 8:23 AM

Which historical significance is that, Al? The significance to launch “holy” wars? To hold inquisitions? To execute innocent men and women for “witchcraft”? To justify flying planes into buildings? How about murdering doctors and bombing government buildings? Maybe we should restore religion to the point that we can use it to justify executing our political opponents, or perhaps just as an excuse for decades of sectarian domestic terrorism?

Faith in a higher power is good thing. Living your life according to Christ’s teachings is admirable. Most of the other world’s faiths teach similar ideals as Christianity: love, forgive, accept, and turn the other cheek. Thanks to organized religion, however, very few people actually live that way. Instead they learn to hate, condemn, judge, and destroy.

The founders removed religion from government and that is the historically significant thing we should be concerned about maintaining.

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sumyounguy

Sep-08-13 10:12 AM

SE, we're supposed to be 50 experiments. Some, apparently including you, want the federal government to control everything. If we are all on one boat, we only have one chance to float. 50 boats have a much better chance of success, with people having the freedom to choose which State's laws suit them.

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cfh101proof

Sep-07-13 6:30 PM

Id rather my kids NOT pledge their allegience to what our flag presently stands for and how others around the world view it.When I see the American flag today I see a drone missile wrapped in it heading straight at kids in Afghanistan gathering wood who are about to DIE.I see deformed babies born in Iraq because of the depleted uranium we used over there.I see 5,000+ US soldiers killed in a war based on lies.I see another 47,000 US vets dead from suicide.I see the Al Qaeda flag right next to it because that is who our government owns and supports.I see innocent ppl scared out of their minds tonight wondering if they will be killed in US airstrikes while they. sleep.Don't even get me started on the invisible man on a cloud.

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